The Future

[dayrinni]

My Future 4X Game is steadily approaching the present...

I bring a screenshot which I hope all of you will enjoy:

[adamsolo]

It's really nice dayrinni. You successfully merge the realism of a planetary system above and the needed abstraction to simplify the player's life in the bottom. Looks promising!

[Skarion]

Fantastic background and star!

If you want the planet generator code I've used you can just send me a PM.

[dayrinni]

Thank you!

All of the stars and planets rotate. When you mouse over a planet, it highlights (as seen in the picture) and pulses the orbit.


On the planet generator code - thanks for the offering but I already have one instituted, though basic. I will be writing a more elaborate one in the future that generates planet types based on their distance from the star. One of my testers has a degree in Physics/Space Science and he is doing research for me to get some basic %'s to generate the proper planet types and sizes. I have high hopes for this!

[Skarion]

(Dec 14, 2011 02:19 AM)dayrinni Wrote:  All of the stars and planets rotate. When you mouse over a planet, it highlights (as seen in the picture) and pulses the orbit.

Nice! I was considering something similar though concluded that it wouldn't look so good or would be quite hard to implement in a good fashion - though you have clearly proven me wrong.

Quote:On the planet generator code - thanks for the offering but I already have one instituted, though basic. I will be writing a more elaborate one in the future that generates planet types based on their distance from the star. One of my testers has a degree in Physics/Space Science and he is doing research for me to get some basic %'s to generate the proper planet types and sizes. I have high hopes for this!

Great! Would love to have someone with deep physic/space science knowledge to discuss things with.

Love the statistics btw, how did you calculate the age? Was it just randomized or do you have some kind of calculations?

And the background, is it perlin noise or is it NASA pictures?

[dayrinni]

(Dec 14, 2011 09:55 PM)Skarion Wrote:  Nice! I was considering something similar though concluded that it wouldn't look so good or would be quite hard to implement in a good fashion - though you have clearly proven me wrong.

Thank you. A lot of small things like that can really add a bit of flavor to the game. Something so small as a pulsing can really make a large impact. Unfortunately, some of those things are hard to see on screenshots so I felt it was meaningful to mention.

Quote:Great! Would love to have someone with deep physic/space science knowledge to discuss things with.

It has been a HUGE help. He is a gamer too, so he realizes that some things can be bent for gameplay/fun values. He helped me with the orbits and ensuring that they are somewhat correct and interesting. I am getting him more involved in these types of games - he recently bought Star Ruler (thanks to Adam's review/posts!).

Quote:Love the statistics btw, how did you calculate the age? Was it just randomized or do you have some kind of calculations?

Yes, I like them a lot as well. Since it adds a more immersive feel. They'll also be used for various special research projects and other facilities. Since I am not doing realistic 3D graphics, I am going with a more "console"/"computerized" look for the game. This offers a lot of flexibility and possibilities.

Regarding the calculations, I have assigned certain values to the different classes of stars and generate a random set in there. These numbers are based on "known" (what I could find - there seems to be a lack in some areas) statistics.

Quote:And the background, is it perlin noise or is it NASA pictures?

I generated it myself. I have a very very low budget (maybe $2,000 total) for this game so I am doing a lot of the art myself.

[Skarion]

(Dec 15, 2011 01:49 AM)dayrinni Wrote:  It has been a HUGE help. He is a gamer too, so he realizes that some things can be bent for gameplay/fun values. He helped me with the orbits and ensuring that they are somewhat correct and interesting. I am getting him more involved in these types of games - he recently bought Star Ruler (thanks to Adam's review/posts!).

If he like 4x games it'd be wonderful if he tried out my game and if he liked it would give out some pointers...

Quote:Regarding the calculations, I have assigned certain values to the different classes of stars and generate a random set in there. These numbers are based on "known" (what I could find - there seems to be a lack in some areas) statistics.

I did the same thing. Would've been fun with a more in depth calculation.

Quote:I generated it myself.

Generated it yourself as that you painted it yourself or that you use code to generate it?

In case you use code, what code do you use? Perlin noise seems to look good in most examples I've seen but I haven't got it to work properly the way I'd wish it to look.

Quote:I have a very very low budget (maybe $2,000 total) for this game so I am doing a lot of the art myself.

$2000 budget? Wow. I must say that I'd never spend that much money on a hobby project, my project has as of yet cost me $0 (except if you include time I've spent with it then considering the pay I have I've spent too much time with the game considering I don't expect to earn anything on it).

If you think you will earn money on it, how do you think you can be able to compete either with the other projects space battles, art or in depth strategy?

Considering my current lack of knowledge of 3D and painting the only thing I think I am better at than other developers is the algorithms making me able to have a lot larger games than anyone else has - which seems to not be something which is such a prioritized goal for most players. So it'd be fun to hear how you consider you able to beat yourself into the market.

[dayrinni]

(Dec 15, 2011 06:29 PM)Skarion Wrote:  If he like 4x games it'd be wonderful if he tried out my game and if he liked it would give out some pointers...

I'll point him in that direction!

(Dec 15, 2011 06:29 PM)Skarion Wrote:  I did the same thing. Would've been fun with a more in depth calculation.

Well, I think with these %'s that I will be getting, it should be "close" to the real thing (based on what is known today). But it should be straight forward to add more depth and complexity over time. For example, bert would like to see double planets and gas giants with terran like planets as moons. I think these are great ideas and will be implementing over the course of testing.

Speaking of which, after I do the tech revamp, which should be done sometime in January, I will get some more testers involved. If you want to help then - let me know!

(Dec 15, 2011 06:29 PM)Skarion Wrote:  Generated it yourself as that you painted it yourself or that you use code to generate it?

In case you use code, what code do you use? Perlin noise seems to look good in most examples I've seen but I haven't got it to work properly the way I'd wish it to look.

Ahh, I see what you were asking now! I use GIMP and various filters and methods in there to generate the graphics. I'm not sure if you have used GIMP before but I can go into a bit more detail if you want!

(Dec 15, 2011 06:29 PM)Skarion Wrote:  $2000 budget? Wow. I must say that I'd never spend that much money on a hobby project, my project has as of yet cost me $0 (except if you include time I've spent with it then considering the pay I have I've spent too much time with the game considering I don't expect to earn anything on it).

If you think you will earn money on it, how do you think you can be able to compete either with the other projects space battles, art or in depth strategy?

Most of that budget will be on art and music/sound. I've allocated roughly 75% of the budget to art and then the rest to sound. I've spent around 25% so far. But once I get an artist soon, it will be used and quickly!

As you mention below with the 3D aspect - I cannot offer that. But what I can offer is a clean and fluid game that has high complexity and depth as well, as a solid story. So for players who want to sink their teeth into a game that will take them awhile to complete and/or to rule the universe as a powerful overlord - I think this game will suit them.

(Dec 15, 2011 06:29 PM)Skarion Wrote:  Considering my current lack of knowledge of 3D and painting the only thing I think I am better at than other developers is the algorithms making me able to have a lot larger games than anyone else has - which seems to not be something which is such a prioritized goal for most players. So it'd be fun to hear how you consider you able to beat yourself into the market.

I think your game will be successful - just keep at it and when you get a release phase let it loose!!

[bertipa]

(Dec 18, 2011 05:00 AM)dayrinni Wrote:  As you mention below with the 3D aspect - I cannot offer that. But what I can offer is a clean and fluid game that has high complexity and depth as well, as a solid story. So for players who want to sink their teeth into a game that will take them awhile to complete and/or to rule the universe as a powerful overlord - I think this game will suit them.

It is really difficult for me to convey how much I feel that the money/time spent in 3D for a 4X game are a pointless waste of resources.

Nice graphics are important but they should be nice because they convey mood and information.

3D seems to be needed just to make the game feel modern. I feel that this is not enough.

I was so mad at Civilization IV that was so heavy to run and so sparse in respect to CIV III... with 3D graphics were not so much better and with littler maps.
Thankfully after a couple of expansions (and a pc upgrade from may part) they made it right (but not the maps :dodgy.

[Skarion]

(Dec 18, 2011 05:00 AM)dayrinni Wrote:  I'll point him in that direction!

Cheers!

Quote:Speaking of which, after I do the tech revamp, which should be done sometime in January, I will get some more testers involved. If you want to help then - let me know!

Would be fun!

Though as I probably will implement things which are similar to some of your ideas so I hope you won't feel upset and thinking that I stole your ideas if it happens if I should test your game.

Quote:Ahh, I see what you were asking now! I use GIMP and various filters and methods in there to generate the graphics. I'm not sure if you have used GIMP before but I can go into a bit more detail if you want!

Isn't it problematic if everything will be similar every time you play?

Quote:Most of that budget will be on art and music/sound. I've allocated roughly 75% of the budget to art and then the rest to sound. I've spent around 25% so far. But once I get an artist soon, it will be used and quickly!

As you mention below with the 3D aspect - I cannot offer that. But what I can offer is a clean and fluid game that has high complexity and depth as well, as a solid story. So for players who want to sink their teeth into a game that will take them awhile to complete and/or to rule the universe as a powerful overlord - I think this game will suit them.

Sounds like a game I'd like - will be fun to see where it goes - though be aware that a 2000$ investment probably won't be repaid by copies sold.

Quote:I think your game will be successful - just keep at it and when you get a release phase let it loose!!

Thanks!

[dayrinni]

Sorry for my late reply, I have been quite busy since the holidays.

(Dec 22, 2011 06:44 AM)Skarion Wrote:  Cheers!

I haven't had much time to speak to him, he has been playing Star Wars and working. I will keep an eye out for him though.

(Dec 22, 2011 06:44 AM)Skarion Wrote:  Would be fun!

Though as I probably will implement things which are similar to some of your ideas so I hope you won't feel upset and thinking that I stole your ideas if it happens if I should test your game.

Well, that is the risk we all take when we make anything and put it out for the public to see.

(Dec 22, 2011 06:44 AM)Skarion Wrote:  Isn't it problematic if everything will be similar every time you play?

It could, I suppose it depends on your taste. But on the other side, the players will learn what the planet graphics are for and then they will automatically associate them with a given planet type, so it would be good.

(Dec 22, 2011 06:44 AM)Skarion Wrote:  Sounds like a game I'd like - will be fun to see where it goes - though be aware that a 2000$ investment probably won't be repaid by copies sold.

I don't mind not making back what I invested. But, I think I will be able to sell some copies. If the game is $10 (a very reasonable amount these days for indie games), I would have to have 200 people purchase them. With all my friends and family, I probably have a good 25 right there. I have already made back around 12.5% of my initial investment. (This gets more complex after factoring in taxes/publishing fees, etc, but you get the idea).

Anyways, as mentioned before, I'm not too concerned with it. I want to make a fun game that offers something a bit different.

(Dec 22, 2011 06:44 AM)Skarion Wrote:  Thanks!

I plan on resuming testing on your game soon! I am just trying to play catch up on the internet!

[Skarion]

(Jan 14, 2012 02:05 AM)dayrinni Wrote:  Sorry for my late reply, I have been quite busy since the holidays.

No worries!

Quote:I plan on resuming testing on your game soon! I am just trying to play catch up on the internet!

I haven't had much time to speak to him, he has been playing Star Wars and working. I will keep an eye out for him though.

Don't worry about it!

Was testing it en masse with testers whom I watched playing it this winter. Seemingly it seems that they had a lot of problems to connect with the game on larger games (40x40 maps or smaller was when they started to feel at home) and even if they found the game fun and got hooked playing it when they finally learnt how to play they had problems to connect with their empire as of limitations in the engine and didn't feel any urge to play again if someone was able to interrupt their playing for a longer time period.

So as the main problems seems to be from the engine I am currently taking a break from continued work, put up a 150% IRL work schedule the next 7 weeks and having other projects at the side.

Will see in a few weeks how I will solve the current problems with UU or if I should restructure the whole engine.

So there isn't much reason to play the game currently as I got quite a long list of improvements and won't work on it for some time.

[dayrinni]

I am sorry to hear of your engine problems with your game.

You mentioned that you are trying to decide if you'll fix the current issues or restructure the whole engine: which way are you leaning right now? Maybe it would be worth it to restructure the game and rework from the beginning? You now know what you want to do and it could be easier the second time around and the overall game could be better. Obviously, I am not too informed with your current situation or goals/etc, so maybe this is a bad suggestion

The reason why I suggested that is I had to do something a long time ago with a text based MUD. I implemented a bunch of stuff and then I had to switch to a different code base (very similar) so I had to re-implement my features. I thought it would take me a very long time to do so (weeks) but it ended up being much shorter.

On a related note - since you are booked 150% for the next few months, are you still interested in helping me test (It probably won't be for a good three weeks)?

[dayrinni]

Hello!

My testers and I have been working hard on the game for the past month. One of the improvements that we have completed is to the Planetary System window.

Here is a screenshot of the current iteration:




I will be releasing Version 5 in hopefully a few weeks which will have a completely revamped technology system. When that happens, I will be making another post looking for testers. I want to expand my test base as we are reaching the middle of Alpha and would like to receive more feedback from the 4X Community.

Thanks!

[Skarion]

Will always be open for alpha testing!

Quote:You mentioned that you are trying to decide if you'll fix the current issues or restructure the whole engine: which way are you leaning right now? Maybe it would be worth it to restructure the game and rework from the beginning? You now know what you want to do and it could be easier the second time around and the overall game could be better. Obviously, I am not too informed with your current situation or goals/etc, so maybe this is a bad suggestion

The reason why I suggested that is I had to do something a long time ago with a text based MUD. I implemented a bunch of stuff and then I had to switch to a different code base (very similar) so I had to re-implement my features. I thought it would take me a very long time to do so (weeks) but it ended up being much shorter.

Leaning at restructuring atm.

Creating a Dwarf Fortress copy with better UI / graphics currently as to practice the use of individual units as to use for starships and the use of better platform independent UI systems.

[dayrinni]

(Jan 27, 2012 08:21 PM)Skarion Wrote:  Will always be open for alpha testing!

Great! I am trying to finish up the new technology system. I hope it will be done 2ish weeks. I had a few set backs in RL but nothing major. I will let you know when the time is right!

(Jan 27, 2012 08:21 PM)Skarion Wrote:  Leaning at restructuring atm.

Creating a Dwarf Fortress copy with better UI / graphics currently as to practice the use of individual units as to use for starships and the use of better platform independent UI systems.

I think restructuring may be worth it. You learn so much doing it the first time and that knowledge proves invaluable the second time around. Your new project sounds like fun!


Also, I spoke with my friend (astro-phys guy), and he said that he has very little time to devote to anything gaming related (even to my game). I'll let you know if his status changes in the future.

[farcodev]

Really cool project and screenies.
Have you finished the tech system ?

keep it up !

[dayrinni]

(Mar 02, 2012 01:43 PM)farcodev Wrote:  Really cool project and screenies.
Have you finished the tech system ?

keep it up !

Thanks!

Yep, it is in Alpha Version 5. I haven't added all of the techs yet, more will come with each version that I release (6 should be released in a week or two). The tech system is a flagship feature of the game, actually. It is very cool.

[farcodev]

(Mar 02, 2012 02:47 PM)dayrinni Wrote:  Thanks!

Yep, it is in Alpha Version 5. I haven't added all of the techs yet, more will come with each version that I release (6 should be released in a week or two). The tech system is a flagship feature of the game, actually. It is very cool.

I seen your pm, I'll try it this weekend

Yup, a tech system is an important core of a space game, I'll implement one after that the first playable alpha is released.
From what I reading on your forum your tech system seems to be very cool